This study examines some of the mysterious Egyptian links within Greek mythology, focusing on Plato's Atlantis Mythology. I will attempt to establish a chronology for the Greek myths, and identify locations within Egypt that these myths relate to. Finally, I will examine some recent Egyptian archaeology to examine whether these myths MAY contain some form of garbled or lost history pertaining to 18th dynasty Egypt and Greece.
I stumbled on a coincidence that the names of the Danaids conform with A: Athenian Kings b: Pleiades(Daughters of Atlas) c: Names of the Atlantian Kings in the Critias. Additionally, the wife of Danaus was named Atlanteia (Daughter of Atlas).
This study attempts to prove that:
A. Solinus explicitly references a city named Atlantis in this location.
B. The location that Solon visited in Egypt, was the location he described as Atlantis.
C. This location was also the home of Atlanteia, wife of Danaus.
D. Hellanicus' Atlantis, which pre-dates Plato, can be linked to Plato's tale; Atlanteia is contemporary with the Pleiades described by Hellanicus.
E. The time-frames mentioned by Plato are exactly correct after being offset by a factor of 10 error.
F. The War of Athena appears on the Parium Marble.
G. Every mythological character referenced by Plato has an explicit link to this location.
H. The Bull cult mentioned by Plato matches the Egyptian Bull Cult of Serapis/Apis; Although Serapis is first mentioned after Plato, the Serapeum of Memphis dates to 18th dynasty Egypt, and provides a link to Ptah/Hephaestus.
I. A circular harbor with 3 Ports was found here, which matches the description by Plato.
Note: this study is a work-in-progress. Feedback is appreciated.
|Theory (10 roads to Canopus, and the rest of the story).|
1. I stumbled name Atlanteia in a mythological dictionary on Theoi.com, and picked at it like a scab. It said she was married to Danaus. I thought maybe if I can find the location of Danaus, I'll get lucky, and this will be the location of Atlantis. Danaus came from Canopus, Egypt (Prometheus Bound). It turns out this was correct.
2. Plato's Timaeus says the story originated from Solon. Plutarch tells us information not in Plato's tale, that Solon lived in Egypt for 10 years, "Near Nilus' mouth, by fair Canopus' shore".
3. Aeschylus says Io founded a colony in Canopus. Appolodorus tells us that Danaus, a descendant of IO was located in Libya. The Egyptian Nome of Libya (Marea) contains the city of Canopus; hence Libya equals Canopus.
Additionally, in the family tree of Danaus: IO -> Epaphus -> Poseidon-> Belus -> Danaus.
Libya was the wife of Poseidon. This also seems to be in agreement with Herodotus, who pre-dates Plato, tells us that the Greeks got their knowledge of Poseidon from the Libyans; hence Poseidon is connected to this location as well.
4. On Atlanteia, Theoi.com supposes that her name is indicative that she was a daughter of Atlas. The Pleiades (daughters of Atlas), are contemporary with her. Atlanteia is also contemporary with Maera 3, who is another daughter of Atlas, who isn't a Pleiade. Theoi.com says that Atlanteia is a Hamadryade, Poplar-Tree Nymph from Libya . The Phaethon mythology says that his sisters, the Heliades , mourned for him after his death, and turned into Poplar trees ; hence the Poplar tree link. Diodorus Siculus gives us the Nymph link: "The Atlantides were also called �nymphai�" (Not mentioned by Plato) Note: Phoebe was another wife of Danaus who was also a Heliade.
5. The Pleiade Electra was also a Danaid (daughter of Danaus), as was Celaeno. Hellanicus wrote a tale before Plato, called Atlantis; This tale discusses the Pleiades and Hyades and their travels into Greece. This is the right place and the right time of Danaus, and so I have linked it to Plato's tale.
6. Phaethon is mentioned in Timaeus. It is sort of interesting that one guy named Phaethon is descended from Herse, daughter of Cecrops the Athenian, according to Appolodorus; The story of Phaethon mentions the Eridanus River. Hyginus tells us the location of this river ("Eridanus... Canopus is an island washed by the river Nile."). Herodotus also tells us that the Eridanus River flows North, which seems to confirm that the Eridanus is the Nile.
7. The Critias mentions Nereids; Nereids are the daughters of Nereus. Nonnus calls him "Libyan Nereus", in a myth with Elephants (Elephants are mentioned in Critias); hence, Nereus is connected to this location; Elephants appear in mythology and live in Africa, go figure.
8. In Timaeus, Plato mentions "Ge" as the consort of Hephaestus. Luckily, there was a statue of "Ge" in Athens, and it was inside a temple of Demeter (Pausanias); hence we can relate Ge with Demeter. Nonnus tells us that IO was called the Aegyptian Demeter. Tertullian calls her the Pharian Ceres [Demeter] (Note: Pharos is the island in pre-Alexandria mentioned by Homer). Hence, Io=Ge.
9. On Hephaestus, Plato said he was the consort of Ge, and in the last section I said Ge=Io. The husband of Io was Serapis. Unfortunately, Serapis wasn't mentioned until long after Plato was dead (50 AD). However, there was a Serapeum in Memphis, Egypt that dates to the time-frame of Io. This Serapeum of Memphis " was the burial place of the Apis bull, the living manifestation of the god Ptah ". Ptah was linked to Hephaestus by the Greeks, via Interpretaio Graeca.
Additionally, Strabo mentions a Serapeum in Alexandria/Canopus . Additionally, Plato describes a Bull cult in Timaeus, and Plato's description of this Bull cult is an exact match with the Serapeum. Additionally, Memphis was the daughter-in-law of Io (perhaps a symbolic name for an Egyptian woman from Memphis).
10. Diodorus Siculus comments on the term quot;Asty" (Diodorus 1.28). It seems to connect the two cities: Athens and Alexandria [20 km west of Canopus].
|1. Solinus and Pliny reference the city of Atlantis as a real place.|
Here are 2 references to Atlantis as a place by Solinus and Pliny.
"XXXI.1 Quod ab Atlante usque Canopitanum ostium panditur, ubi Libyae finis est et Aegyptium limen, dictum a Canopo Menelai gubernatore sepulto in ea insula quae ostium Nili facit, gentes tenent dissonae, quae in auiae solitudinis secretum recesserunt."
"The door is spread out which from Atlant up to Canopitanus, where the boundary is of Libya and the Egyptian threshold, the saying from Canopus to Menela with the buried helmsman in that island [Pharos?] which the door of Nile makes, the tribes dissonant hold [Strabo's Shepherds?], which into the secret of the pathless solitude have receded. " -- Solinus Book 31
2. "(30.) The whole of this country has successively had the names of �theria,727 Atlantia, and last of all, �thiopia, from �thiops, the son of Vulcan." -- Pliny 6.35.30
|2. Solon traveled to Canopus, Egypt and lived there for 10 years.|
Plutarch tells us additional information about Solon in Egypt, which is not contained in Plato's Timaeus or Critias. Plutarch mentions where Solon went, and who he talked to in Egypt.
"His first voyage was for Egypt, and he lived, as he himself says- 'Near Nilus' mouth, by fair Canopus' shore,'" and spent some time in study with Psenophis of Heliopolis, and Sonchis the Saite , the most learned of all the priests; from whom, as Plato says, getting knowledge of the Atlantic story, he put it into a poem, and proposed to bring it to the knowledge of the Greeks." -- Plutarch�s Life of Solon
|3. List of Danaids contains the names of: A. the Atlantean Kings B. Athenian Kings C. Pleiades.|
Danaus built a temple in Lerna, Argos to "Athena Saitis who is also called Neith" (Pausanias). This matches the connection of Athena with Neith in Plato's Timaeus.
Here is a list of Danaids and unexpected names that appear.
Periphas(Athenian King before Actaeus)
Actaea (unknown, similiar to Actaeus)(king before Cecrops)(perhaps his mother or daughter)
Herse (daughter of Cecrops)(great grand-mother of Phaethon - Apoll. 3.14.3)
Chtonius (similar to Eri-chtonius)(hyginus derivation: strife, soil)
Pandion (Athenian King)
Lycus(brother of Leucippe), appears in Hellanicus' Atlantis myth as son of Celaeno
Nymphs 3 & 4(Atlantia and Phoebe)
Clite and Clites (these are the only Clito's from Greek mythology)
Eudaemon - Hyginus(List2) - (In the Cornarius Critias, Evaemon adds an extra letter and becomes Eudaemon)
|4. Linking Plato's Atlantis to Hellanicus Atlantis and Aeschylus Prometheus Bound|
By showing that Danaus was married to Atlanteia (a Daughter of Atlas), and that the Pleiades were contemporary and related to her, this provides me a link to other legends pre-dating Plato (Aeschylus Prometheus Bound and Hellanicus Atlantis )
1. Celaino and Lykos are explicitly mentioned in the Hellanicus tale, and they are also explicitly mentioned as Danaids.
"Celaeno and Poseidon knew themselves, they conceived to Lycus, being with the son [sent to?] live in the Isles of the Blest and was made immortal" -- Hellanicus
It corresponds (partially) to the following commentary to the Iliad:
"...Kelaino Poseidoni kai auton suggenesthai, on Lykos..." (Schol. Homer. Il. 6, 486)." -- Georgeos Diaz-Montexano
2. Location of IO:
"Where the Neilos� (Nile�s) outflow lays its bank of silt, there stands on the last edge of land the city of Kanopos; and here at last Zeus shall restore your mind, and come upon you, not with terror, with a gentle touch; his hand laid on you shall put life into your womb, and you shall bear a dark-skinned son to Zeus, and name him from his begetting, Epaphos (Child of Touch). He shall possess the harvest-wealth of all those lands watered by the broad-flowing Neilos. Five generations from him, a family of fifty sisters [the Danaides] shall return against their will to Argos, desperate to escape from kindred marriage with their cousins." -- Aeschylus Prometheus Bound
Canopus , Egypt
1486 Io, Serapis, Nilus
1464 Epaphus, Memphis
1442 Libya, Lysianassa, Poseidon
1398-1376 Danaus, Atlanteia, Egyptus
|5. Moving the Pillars of Hercules?|
No Atlantis solution would be complete without pillars. So I am forced to attempt to locate them at this location.
Attempt #1: There is a reference to " Pillars of Proteus " by Virgil. Proteus was supposedly the king of Pharos, Egypt at the time of the Trojan war.
"Menelaus, son of Atreus, driven from that warfare to distant shores, was exiled as far as Egypt, and the Pillars of Proteus" -- Virgil's Aenid Book 11
Pliny seems to mention some islands off of Africa called "columnas" or pillars of unknown location.
Attempt #2: "Then there was another Heracles, of Tiryns[Argos], not the Canopian. For before this the Egyptian Heracles had visited Delphi." -- Pausanias 10.13.7
Attempt #3: There is a temple of Hercules, located on the Heracleotic(Canopic) mouth of the Nile. There is no textual evidence of any Greek ever referring to this location as the pillars of Hercules. Additionally I can't prove that this temple existed at the time of Solon, let alone 800 years earlier. The concept of identifying the pillars of Heracles with a temple comes from Strabo.
"[He adds] that there is no temple of Hercules shown there, as Ephorus falsely states, nor yet any altar [to him] nor to any other divinity;" -- Strabo Book 3.1.4
Herodotus mentions this temple existing prior to Alexander 1, which is within 100 years of Solon.
Herodotus on Alexander 1 (498BC - 454BC):
"he came to Egypt and in Egypt to the mouth of the Nile that is now called Canobian and to Taricheiae. And there was on the shore Heracles� shrine, which exists even now" -- Herodotus Inquiries book 2
The temple has been found and excavated . Here is artistic drawing that puts it on an island . This location has been identified as Thonis :
"1. The Egyptian version of the honorary decree taken by the Egyptian priests assembled in Canopus in honour of Ptolemy III, indicates the expression "the House of Amun-Gereb at the mouth of the Hon�."
2. Further, an Egyptian diocete stationed in Ptolemaic Alexandria in the course of the 2nd or 1st century, enumerates among his priestly benefits those of "prophet of Khonsu-Child and Amun-Gereb, hierogrammate of the temple of Amun-Gereb, scribe of Osiris in the temple of Pe-Gouti (= Canopus)�"
c. A demotic papyrus dated around the 2nd century, found at Saqqara, and containing an index of Egyptian divinities enumerates among some 30 versions of Amun the name of "Amun-Gereb".
Also, and more curiously, the young lunar god Khonsou, son of Amun of Thebes, had been assimilated with Herakles, son of Zeus, and had even sited several stages and minor exploits of the famous hero traveler on the coast of the Delta."
|6. Libya and Asia together;Impassable Sea|
I have found a city description that has strange elements which conforms with Plato's Atlantis Tale (Impassable Sea (Strabo), Libya and Asia together (Skylax), etc).
1. Libya and Asia Together :
"Mareia. And this lake is already in ] Libya"
"And the Kanopic mouth bounds Asia and Libya." -- Skylax
2a. Un-navigable :
"the harbour which Aegypt did have, the one at Pharos, gave no access , but was guarded by shepherds who were pirates and who attacked those who tried to bring ships to anchor there" -- Strabo Book 17
2b. More un-navigable :
"Strong Mediterranean currents can churn the water near the mouth of the Nile river into a sea of mud."
1c. Even more un-navigable :
"During the twelfth century AD, the Canopic mouth of the Nile silted up, blocking the flow of fresh water into the lake, making it un-navigable. As a consequence, Alexandria was cut off from the entire river system of Egypt and was unable to trade as easily as before, and this resulted in the cities decline for many years to come."
|7. Libya=NOME of Libya (Canopus); Arabia=Nome of Arabia (Sopdu)|
The Danaus legend is a little vague as to his location (Belus settled his son Danaus in Libya, and Egyptus in Arabia). Where is Libya? Danaus was descended from IO, and IO was in Canopus; Canopus is the Egyptian Nome of Libya. Note: The Egyptian nome of Arabia is Sopdu.
1. Location of Danaus :
[2.1.4]... Danaus was settled by Belus in Libya, and Egyptus in Arabia; but Egyptus subjugated the country of the Melampods and named it Egypt (after himself)." -- Apollodorus Book 2
2. THE NOMES OF EGYPT. By W. M. FLINDERS PETRIE.
Egyptian Name, Greek Name
iii Ament, Marea (Libya)
xx Sepdu-kemhes, Phakusa (Arabia)
3. Nomes of Egypt: Nome 20 (Arabia) was home of Avaris, and also the oldest water-pipes in Egypt.
4. "106.EGYPT...seventh [the Canobic, with Thonis, a city
107. LIBYA....Pharos, a deserted island (but it has good harbours and has no water)" -- Skylax
|8. A city that "may" conform to that of Egyptus was found in Sopdu (Arabia), with Advanced Technology.|
Manfred Bietak found a Minoan city in Egypt with no good Explanation. Initially, he attributed it to the Hyksos. Later he moved up the time frame 100 years to conform with Hatshepsut. He found a Minoan palace and a stele with a Minoan princess and a Bull. He also found "Egypts oldest water pipes"... which would seem to conform with Plato's story as well.
Unfortunately it is in the wrong location to be the home of IO and Danaus. However, this city is in the nome of Sopdu, which was also called Arabia (Petrie); Arabia was the home of Egyptus. It appears that the Greeks may indeed have written about this unexplained colony in Egypt. In the stele, which I haven't seen yet, theoretically, the Minoan princess should be IO, the bull should be Serapis. Egyptus was a descendant of IO, just like Danaus, so this stele would be appropriate and expected.
Note: Alternatively, Minos was also said to have founded a colony in Arabia.
City of Egyptus
"Minoan civilization connection Besides Thera and Crete, only two other sites have a record of Minoan civilization besides Avaris. They are Tell Kabri, and Alalakh in Syria. It is speculated by the excavator of Tell Dab'a (Austrian, Bietak), that there was close contact with the rulers of Avaris, and the large building representing the frescoes allowed the Minoans to have a ritual life in Egypt. French archaeologist Yves Duhoux proposed the existence of a Minoan 'colony' on an island in the Nile delta. These finds may also imply the later arrival of the Sea Peoples. Another strange quality of the Minoans is that they used a Minoan hieroglyph system which was directly based upon existing Egyptian hieroglyphs."
|9. Atlanteia linked to the Phaethon legend. (Both point to Canopus)|
I've linked Atlanteia, the "Tree Nymph" to the Phaeton legend.
The tree-nymph named Atlanteia, wife of Danaus, ties directly into the Phaethon mythology of Timaeus 22c.
"Phaethon, son of Clymenus, son of Sol [Helios], and the nymph Merope, who, as we have heard was and Oceanid, upon being told by his father that his grandfather was Sol [Helios], put to bad use the chariot he asked for. For when he was carried too near the earth, everything burned in the fire that came near, and, struck by a thunderbolt, he fell into the river Po. This river is called Eridanus by the Greeks; Pherecydes [Greek poet C6th BC] was the first to name it. The Indians became black, because their blood was turned to a dark colour from the heat that came near. The sister of Phaethon, too, in grieving for their brother, were changed into poplar trees. Their tears, as Hesiod tells, hardened into amber� in spite of the change they are called Heliades. They are, then, Merope[Danaid/Pleiade], Helie, Aegle, Lampetia, Phoebe, Aetherie, Dioxippe." - Hyginus, Fabulae 154
2a. Atlanteia was a Hamadryade tree nymph from Libya.
"(3) The Hamadryades were the Nymphs of oak and poplar trees. These were usually associated with river-side trees and sacred groves.
ATLANTEIA An Libyan Hamadryad nymph who was the mother of several of the Danaides by King Danaus.
PHOIBE A Libyan Hamadryad nymph who was the mother of several of the Danaides by King Danaus.""
b. Diodorus Siculus connects Nymphes to Atlanteans...
"The Atlantides were also called �nymphai� because the natives of that land addressed their women by the common appellation of �nymphe.� -- Diodorus Book 3"
3a. The Eridanus is linked to Canopus by Hyginus:
"II.32 ERIDANUS OR RIVER
Some call this the Nile, though many call it Ocean. Those who advocate the Nile point out that it is correctly so called on account of the great length and usefulness of that River, and especially because below the sign is a certain star, shining more brightly than the rest, called Canopus. Canopus is an island washed by the river Nile." -- Hyginus Astronomy Book 2
b. Herodotus says the Eridanus flows North (as does the Nile):
"neither do I for my part take in that a river is called Eridanus by the barbarians that discharges into the sea in the direction of the north wind" -- Herodotus Inquiries Book 3
c. More on Eridanus:
"The Eridanos is mentioned in ancient Greek writings as a river in northern Europe rich in amber. There have been various guesses at which real river was the Eridanus: these include the Po in north Italy, and the Nile and the Danube. Another, lesser Eridanos, a small river near Athens [mentioned in Plato's Timaeus] has been rediscovered in modern times, with the construction of the Athens Metro." **********
4.Phaethon connected to Athens
"[3.14.3] Herse had by Hermes a son Cephalus, whom Dawn loved and carried off,283 and consorting with him in Syria bore a son Tithonus, who had a son Phaethon,284 who had a son Astynous, who had a son Sandocus, who passed from Syria to Cilicia and founded a city Celenderis, and having married Pharnace, daughter of Megassares, king of Hyria, begat Cinyras." -- Apollodorus book 3 .
5. Additional Info on Phaethon
|10. Connecting Ge to Io and Hephaestus to Ptah.|
I've taken the mythological figures of Plato's Tale (Phaeton, Nereus, Ge and Hephaestus) and spun a web of mythology triangulating to a single location, Pharos, Egypt.
"[21e] �In the Delta of Egypt,� said Critias, �where, at its head, the stream of the Nile parts in two, there is a certain district called the Saitic. The chief city in this district is Sais--the home of King Amasis,3 --the founder of which, they say, is a goddess whose Egyptian name is Neith,4 and in Greek, as they assert, Athena. "
"[23d] Upon hearing this, Solon said that he marvelled, and with the utmost eagerness requested the priest to recount for him in order and exactly all the facts about those citizens of old. The priest then said: �I begrudge you not the story, Solon; nay, I will tell it, both for your own sake and that of your city, and most of all for the sake of the Goddess who has adopted for her own both your land and this of ours, and has nurtured and trained them,--yours first by the space of a thousand years, when she had received the seed of you from Ge [23e] and Hephaestus,1 and after that ours. And the duration of our civilization as set down in our sacred writings is 8000 years. Of the citizens, then, who lived 9000 years ago, I will declare to you briefly certain of their laws and the noblest of the deeds they performed:" -- Timaeus 23d
2a. Ge=IO ; Hephaestus=Serapis.
-- Although the name IO is an early name, mentioned by Aeschylus, the term Serapis does not appear until 50BC; my argument is that Hephaestus is the older name for Serapis . The Serapeum of Saqqara is pretty old (18th dynasty Egypt). Serapis explains the bull cult, no matter what he was previously called, which I'm arguing was Hephaestus.
"The Serapeum of Saqqara, a necropolis located near Memphis, Egypt, was the burial place of the Apis bull, the living manifestation of the god Ptah." More Info :
Cult of the Bull
�[120a] all the limbs of the bull, they mixed a bowl of wine and poured in on behalf of each one a gout of blood, and the rest they carried to the fire, when they had first purged the pillars round about. And after this they drew out from the bowl with golden ladles, and making libation over the fire swore to give judgement according to the laws upon the pillar and to punish whosoever had committed any previous transgression� � Bury�s Critias
Compare to Apis Ceremony at Serapeum:
"The sacrifice of a bull to Apis was not something Egyptians took lightly. Those present felt they had to atone for the killing by beating themselves in penitence while the sacred parts were incinerated."
2b. Connecting Ge to IO is a little bit of mythological gymnastics. Ge is usually Gaea, however there is no Uranus in the story (Hephaestus is her consort instead). It appears Ge is also connected to Demeter. From Demeter, I can get to IO.
Note: the Cornarius Critias in Latin translates Ge as Ceres.
Connecting Ge to Demeter :
"We have express statements attesting the existence of statues of Ge in Greece, but none have come down to us. At Patrae she was represented in a sitting attitude, in the temple of Demeter (Paus. vii. 21. � 4), and at Athens, too, there was a statue of her. (i. 24. � 3.)"
Connecting IO to Demeter :
1. "Pharian Ceres" -- Tertulian Apology
More Connections of IO to Demeter :
2. "But kindlier Jupiter [Zeus] had raised her erect in the Pharian fields [Egypt]" -- Statius, Thebaid 6.275
3. "the fruit of Aigypian Demeter my stronghorned Io, scented vapour is carried around by the fragrant breezes. There she brought forth Epaphos the Toucher to Zeus, so called because the divine bed-fellow with love-mad hands touched the inviolate breasts of the heifer child of Inakhos. Epaphos the god-beggoten was father of Libya." - Nonnus, Dionysiaca 3.257
|11. The war of Athena found (in the Parium Marble).|
Since Pliny says Atlantia was re-named Ethiopia (Part 1), then the war is pictured on the Parium Marble. Note: the term Atlantis is feminine.
"A little way inland [from Rhamnos, Attika] is a sanctuary of Nemesis, the most implacable deity to men of violence. It is thought that the wrath of this goddess fell also upon the foreigners [the Persian army] who landed at Marathon. For thinking in their pride that nothing stood in the way of their taking Athens, they were bringing a piece of Parian marble to make a trophy, convinced that their task was already finished. Of this marble Pheidias made a statue of Nemesis, and on the head of the goddess is a crown with deer and small images of Nike (Victory). In her left hand she holds an apple branch, in her right hand a cup on which are wrought Aithiopans. As to the Aithiopians, I could hazard no guess myself, nor could I accept the statement of those who are convinced that the Aithiopians have been carved upon the cup because of the river Okeanos. For the Aithiopians, they say, dwell near it, and Okeanos is the father of Nemesis" -- Pausanias, Guide to Greece 1.33.4
Note: Nike is one of the sur-names of Athena.
Nemesis in Athens should be in the days of Erysichton, son of Cecrops 1, according to the myths. And here is confirmation that Nemesis=Athena, since the mother of Erichtonius/Erekhtheus was Athena (according to the myths). The sprig from the apple tree seems to imply the "Golden Apples of the Hesprerides" (Aethiopes Hesperii).
"Rhamnousia Nemesis (Nemesis of Rhamnous: She was first modeled on the appearance of Aphrodite; that is why she held a sprig from an appletree. Erekhtheus set her up, since she was his mother, but she was named Nemesis and reigned in the place. But Pheidias made the statue." - Suidas "Rhamnousia Nemesis"
|12. Elephant myth found (Nereus).|
I found a myth with Elephants conforming with my location.
a. "[When Poseidon led the Sea-Gods into battle against Dionysos and his allies during the Indian War :] Ancient Nereus armed himself with a watery spear, and led his regiment of daughters [the Nereides] into the Euian struggle. With sea-traversing trident he leapt at the elephants, terrible to behold: many a neighbouring cliff along the shore toppled sideways under the seapike of Nereus. The tribes of Nereides sounded for their sire the cry of battle-triumph: unshod, half hidden in the brine, the company rushed raging to combat over the sea." -- Nonnus, Dionysiaca 43. 253 ff
b. "[When Poseidon led the Sea-Gods into battle against Dionysos and his allies :] Libyan Nereus caught up his conch under the water by Syrtis, and boomed on his sea-trumpet. Then one rising from the surge, and stepping on land rested his left foot on a rock, and with right broke off the top of the cliff with earthshaking tread and hurled it at a Mainas� inviolate head." -- Nonnus, Dionysiaca 43. 286 ff
c. "[When Poseidon married the nymph Beroe, Nereus came with a wedding-gift :] Arabian Nereus brought to the bridechamber in the deep a worthy gift of love, a clever work of Hephaistos, Olympian ornaments, for the bride; necklace and earrings and armlets he brought and offered, all that the Lemnian craftsman had made for the Nereides with inimitable workmanship in the waves--there in the midst of the brine he shook his fiery anvil and tongs under the water, blowing the enclosed breath of the bellows with mimic winds, and when the furnace was kindled the fire roared in the deep unquenched. Nereus then brought these gifts in great variety." -- Nonnus, Dionysiaca 43. 400 ff
|Factor of 10 Problems|
|13a. Problem #1 - Timeframe - Context Clues: Athenian Kings + 20,000 Citizens|
Because 9000 years before Amasis (570BC) seems unreliable for the foundation of Athens, I have ascribed to an old "Factor of 10 error" theory, as to the time-frame. Context clues like the name of the Athenian Kings, and the 20,000 citizens mentioned by Plato conforms to the time-frame of Kekrops.
"In this fashion, then, they dwelt, acting as guardians of their own citizens and as leaders, by their own consent, of the rest of the Greeks and they watched carefully that their own numbers, of both men and women, who were neither too young nor too old to fight, should remain for all time as nearly as possible the same, namely, about 20,000."-- Bury's Critias 112d
Compare to: Attic Legends, which derives from: Philochor. ap. Strabo. ix. p. 397
"[kekrops,] Wishing to ascertain the number of inhabitants, he commanded each man to cast a single stone into a general heap: the number of stones was counted, and it was found that there were twenty thousand."
|13b. Problem #1 - Timeframe - Kinglist: Athens founded 900 years before Amasis.|
Additionally, I have created a new chronology based on the methodology of Herodotus. This chronology shows that Athens was founded by Cecrops - 900 years before Amasis (which is consistent with Archaeology ).
1508 Periphas 6?
1464 Cecrops Diphyes
1442 Cranaus, Deucalion 1, Erysichthon, Herse
1310 Pandion 2
1288 Sons of Metion
1244 Theseus, Daedalus
|13c. Problem #1 - Timeframe - Kinglist: The Pleiades were 800 years before Amasis.|
Fragments of a story pre-dating Plato exist about Atlantis by Hellanicus. "Hellanicus' (c. 500 BC) Atlantis is a genealogical guide to the mythical descendants of the Pleiades."
I have embraced this myth of the Pleiades (daughters of Atlas), and combined it with Plato's story.
There is evidence that Danaus and Atlanteia (daughter of Atlas) were contemporary with the Pleiades:
1. The Pleiade Electra in Troy, who is also listed as a Danaid, is contemporary with Danaus (Evidence 2: Timeline).
2. I have a re-constructed a mythological kinglist which can prove the contemporariness of the remaining Pleiades, to each other and also to Danaus.
1420 Scamander 1(Xanthus), Idaea
1398 Teucer, Melos, Electra
1376 Dardanus 1
1354 Erichthonius 1
1442 Crotopus (Flood of Deucalion)
1420 Sthenelus, Psamanthe
1398-1376 Gelanor,Danaus, ATLANTEIA, Lynceus
|13d. Problem #1 - Timeframe - Kinglist: The Pleiades were contemporary with Danaus and Atlanteia.|
Timeline of the Pleiades:
Alcyone 1(Thebes), Celaeno 2(Danaid), Electra 3(Danaid), Maia(Arcadia), Merope 1, Sterope 3, Taygete(Sparta)
1442 Lycaon 2(flood)
1420 Pelasgus 2, Ares, Calisto(daughter of Lycaon 2), Nyctimus
1398 Larisa 1, Tegeates(son of Lycaon 2), Maera 3 , Phylonome, Artemis?
1376 Pelasgus 4, Parrhasius, Maia
1354 Arcas 1, Erato?, Triptolemus, Deimas?
1420 Eleusinus & Cothonea, Cadmus 1(son of Ogygus), Athena Onga
1398 Trochilus, Dysaules, Alcyone 1
1376 Chthonius 2, Hyrieus(father of Nycteus), Celeus 1 & Metanira
1442 Lelex 2, Cleocharia, Mynes
1420 Myles, Polycaon1
1398 Eurotas, Taygete
1376 Lacedaemon, Sparta
1354 Amyclas, Eurydice2(Acrisius?)
1332 Argalus, Cynortas, Hyacinthus,Leaneira
1310 Oebelus 1, Batia 2, Gorgophone 2, Perieres
1288 Hippocoon2, Tyndareus, Icarius 1, Leda
1266 sons of hippocoon2
1244 Tyndareus 2
1222 Menelaus and Helen, Plisthenes 1
1200 Orestes 2
Merope 1 is with Sysyphus 1, son of Xanthus (listed as Danaid).
Sterope 3 is mentioned with Ares. Ares is mentioned dating a daughter of Cecrops 1(Aglaurus 2).
Additionally, like Atlanteia, there is another daughter of Atlas who is not a Pleiade named Maera 3; she is a contemporary with Danaus in Arcadia(2 generations after the flood of Lycaon/Deucalion).
|14. Problem #2 - Size of the Plain|
1. The large plain of Atlantis was said to be 2,000 x 3,000 stades, with an area of 60,000 stades. 2,000 x 3,000 = 60,000,000; the math doesn't work. However, 200 x 300 = 60,000.
2. 2,000 stades x 3,000 stades = 342 miles x 228 miles. This is bigger than Cyprus. It is bigger than Egypt according to Herodotus .
3. The plain feeds the city:
� [118e]...by cutting transverse passages from one channel to the next and also to the city.� � Bury�s Critias
4. Solon Changed the measurements from Khet to Stade. In Critias, the measurements are in units of 1/10/100, which conforms with Egyptian measurments.
Additionally, in Critias it says: "Egyptians who had first written them down had translated them into their own tongue. So he himself in turn recovered the original sense of each name and, rendering it into our tongue," -- Critias 113a
5. Using 200 Khet x 300 Khet = 9.94 miles x 6.63 miles (66 sq miles).
Note: This is a big reduction from 78,000 sq miles.
6. Canopus is home of the "Golden Plain":
"Gauti (?) - in hieroglyphs"
"The real origin of the name Canopus is said to be Ancient Egyptian Kah Nub = 'golden floor'"--Wikipedia
7. Avaris was described as 10,000 acres (square-khets). This number describing a city seems in-line with Plato's "60,000" number.
|15. Problem #3 - Size of the Army|
The Athenian Army was 20,000.
"[112d]... In this fashion, then, they dwelt, acting as guardians of their own citizens and as leaders, by their own consent, of the rest of the Greeks and they watched carefully that their own numbers, of both men and women, who were neither too young nor too old to fight, should remain for all time as nearly as possible the same, namely, about 20,000."-- Critias
The milos conference seems to have interpreted the size of the Atlantean army to be 1.2 million. My number for the army is 10,000.
"[119a] and the size of the allotment was about ten times ten stades, and the total number of all the allotments was 60,000; and the number of the men in the mountains and in the rest of the country was countless, according to the report, and according to their districts and villages they were all assigned to these allotments under their leaders. So it was ordained that each such leader should provide for war the sixth part of a war-chariots equipment, so as to make up 10,000 chariots in all, together with two horses and mounted men;[119b] also a pair of horses without a car, and attached thereto a combatant1 with a small shield and for charioteer the rider who springs from horse to horse; and two hoplites; and archers and slingers, two of each; and light-armed slingers and javelin-men, three of each; and four sailors towards the manning of twelve hundred ships. Such then were the military dispositions of the royal City; and those of the other nine varied in various ways, which it would take a long time to tell."--Critias
60,000 / 6 = 10,000. Easy enough. Unfortunately, it says 10,000 chariots... not the whole army. One could argue that 10,000 is the size of the army including the chariots, but the text does not seem to support it. Instead, I propose this is Factor of 10 problem #3. There are 1,000 chariots, and the chariots comprise 10% of the army.
Chariots were 2 people of 20:
2 (together with two horses and mounted men)
1+1 (also a pair of horses without a car, and attached thereto a combatant1 with a small shield and for charioteer the rider who springs from horse to horse)
2 (and two hoplites)
4 (and archers and slingers, two of each)
6 (and light-armed slingers and javelin-men, three of each)
4 (and four sailors towards the manning of twelve hundred ships.)
Here is a similar layout describe by Herodotus :
"And the following honors were selected out for those groups alone of the Egyptians besides the priests, twelve selected out fields free of tax for each . The field is a hundred Egyptian cubits every way and the Egyptian cubit is in fact equal to the Samian." -- Herodotus Book 2
Herodotus says the Egyptian warriors were given 12-acres of land (not 6). This can be overcome by noticing that in the Critias, the divisions seem to be in pairs. 12-acres for 2 people (12/2=6).
Note: The Athenians won the war, so maybe they should have the larger army.
To sum up, my theory is that Pharos is the island of Atlantis. It is located around the Pillars of Proteus, and has a Temple of Heracles at Thonis/Canopus/Gauti. My argument is that Solon traveled to the mythical location of IO and Danaus, and got a long story.
Note: Pharos is mentioned by Homer.
It is uncertain what the region looked like at the time of Solon, or 800 years earlier. The earliest description of this region comes from Strabo; the city was a match at that time. (Northern winds/Etesian, impassable sea, royal palace, etc...)
Strabo On Egypt, Book 17 - part: 1 , 2 , 3
Additionally, there is evidence of a city in this location pre-dating Alexandria by at least 700 years.
Finally, here is a neat 500-year-old artistic drawing of Pharos:
source: Wikipedia (Public Domain/copyright expired)
|17. Diodorus on Athens and Sais|
1. While Plato and Diodorus discuss the relationship of Sais to Athens, Plutarch disagreed. According to Plutarch, Solon actually lived in Canopus and not Sais. However, Diodorus says something interesting on the topic:
"That the Athenians likewise are a colony of the Sais, which came out of Egypt, and are their kindred, they endeavour to prove by these arguments; (that is to say) that they only of all the Greeks call the city Asty, from Asty a city among those people of the Sais: and that for the better government of the commonwealth, they divide their people into the same ranks and degrees as they in Egypt do, to wit, into three orders"--Diodorus Book 1:28
2. Astu - lower city - Critias 117e
Astu "Definition: 2. Athens 3. in Egypt, Alexandria, PHal.1.89 (iii B. C.), St.Byz. s.v. astu, etc." -- Perseus-Tufts
|18. Questions & Answers|
1. "Considering the total lack of archaeological or geological support it would not make sense scientifically for Atlantis to have been a 'real' place." -- Anonymous
-- Here is a Circular "Great Harbor" with 3 ports and an island
Compare to: "And after crossing the three outer harbors,"-- Critias 117d
2. "as plain as the nose on your face." -- Anonymous
-- Neptune was in Libya :
"The gods, with whose names they profess themselves unacquainted, the Greeks received, I believe, from the Pelasgi, except Neptune. Of him they got their knowledge from the Libyans " -- Herodotus Book 2
The western branch of the Nile looks like a trident:
Map1 , Map2
3. "be in a region that could be completely swallowed up and displays evidence of such events" -- Anonymous
-- This region is known for sinking:
�While an earthquake may have occurred, I don�t think one is required to explain the sinking of the cities,� says Nile expert Daniel Jean Stanley, senior oceanographer for the Smithsonian Institution. The muddy and soupy ground underneath Herakleion and Menouthis is indeed a likely candidate for liquefaction , Stanley says. The cities sat only a few feet above sea level, and the Nile�s annual flood covered parts of them with water. �Why anyone would want to build cities on a marsh is beyond me,� he says."
|20. Additional References|
|21. Background info on theory development|
Background of Methodology:
A study of Plato's Atlantis story is not a new thing. I have dissected the story from various directions using various disciplines, using the process of myth-rationalization in order to attempt to recover some lost history. I had some inspiration by Isaac Newton's theological writings. Newton didn't have Archaeology or the internet or message forums and yet his writing is still very insightful and relevant today. Newton cited over 100 sources in Greek Mythology and used genealogies to try and establish timelines in his attempt to try and solve Atlantis. Newton never solved Atlantis, and his writing has more mistakes than solutions, but it served as an inspiration to me.
I identified the most controversial aspects of Atlantis, like the time-frame and the pillars of Hercules, etc... and decided to ignore them. That left me with a bunch of unproven mythology within Plato's writings. Note: I will add these ignored aspects back in, later.
Trying to search through all world history at all time-frames to create a new time-frame for this story is a fool's errand. So instead I have attempted to research the chronology of the mythical characters mentioned with Plato's Tale. This includes the Athenian Kings mentioned by Plato before Theseus. It includes Greek Gods like Phaethon, Athena, Ge and Hephaestus from Timaeus. It also includes other gods like Poseidon, Atlas, Zeus, and Nereus from Critias.
Trying to establish a timeline for a God is very tricky business; additionally Cicero's "Nature of the Gods" seems to establish multiple genealogies and instances of these Gods. Greek mythology is a garbled mess which is difficult to navigate with the overlapping of names.
I found Carlos Parada's amazing book/website called "Genealogical Guide to Greek Mythology". He establishes a chronology for various locations in Greece, and has solved the genealogy problems of Greek Mythology. Next problem, how do you establish the time-frame for gods? Fortunately, they often interacted with these mythical kings. If one could establish when a mythical king lived... then you would have the time-frame of the God. Additionally, these kings from various cities interact with each other, so it is possible to establish contemporariness to align king lists from different cities.
Establishing a new timeline for Atlantis:
While attempting to search for the timeline for Atlas, it becomes apparent that Atlas does not interact with any Kings. So then I switched to his family. He has a brother Prometheus, who interacts with IO in Prometheus Bound. Searching for the time-frame for IO was one possibility.
Next, Atlas has 2 sets of daughters, the Pleiades and the Hyades. The Pleiades all marry Greek Kings, so if you could establish a timeline for the Greek Kings, and if these Pleiades were contemporary with another, then you could establish a timeline for Atlas. This is what I have done. Is this cheating to establish a mythological timeline for Plato's writings by using mythological figures (Pleiades) that he never mentions? Maybe. However, there are additional clues that Plato provides that do match this time-frame as well.
The First BIG clue for me:
There was one sentence in Timaeus that helped me the most:
"[21e]...The chief city in this district is Sais--the home of King Amasis,3 --the founder of which, they say, is a goddess whose Egyptian name is Neith,4 and in Greek, as they assert, Athena." -- Timaeus (Bury)
Compared to Pausanias:
"Upon the top of the mountain is a sanctuary of Athena Saitis, now merely a ruin...while by the sea is a stone image of Aphrodite. They say that the daughters of Danaus dedicated it, while Danaus himself made the sanctuary of Athena by the Pontinus." -- Pausanius 2.36.8
This establishes that Pausanias saw evidence that there really was an Athena from Sais. And it also establishes a general timeline for Athena, that this Athena from Sais must have been before or during the reign of Danaus.
Later in this study, I will establish that the time-frame for Danaus is exactly the correct timeline; I will show that he is contemporary with the Pleiades, and married to a woman named Atlanteia.
Other notes on the theory:
Trying to solve the Atlantis problem based on one word, or one sentence is inherently a flawed plan. Fortunately there are many other clues that Plato provides that I have used in my theory. Additionally, there are many other Atlantis traditions with details that are not provided by Plato which reinforce my theory as well. These links are sometimes few and far-between, and hopefully I am able to make a convincing case. You can solve the Atlantis story with Plato, or you can ignore him entirely and still come up with the answer, as illustrated by the search for the Pleiades.
Egyptian links within Greek mythology:
Although not a lot of Greek writing has been preserved before the days of Plato, Egypt appears in many of the writings that do exist. Some of these include: Homer's Illiad which mentions Pharos, Egypt; Hesiod's Theogeny which discusses Nilus. Aeschylus Prometheus Bound, which mentions Canopus; Herodotus who talks about Egypt extensively, and mentions Atlanteans; and Hellanicus Atlantis story, which I will also relate back to Egypt.
Egypt was a regular topic before Plato, and after him. Post-Plato sources include Virgil, Cicero, Clement of Alexandria, Diodorus Siculus, Pausanias, Nonnus, etc... Additionally, many of these great historians also mention Atlas or Atlantis. Plato may have been the greatest Atlantis scholar, but he certainly wasn't the only one, and many authors provided lots of details not provided by Plato. Can these other traditions of Atlantis be connected to Plato's story? I will attempt to try.
|22. Evidence of Io warship in Ancient Egypt(NEW)|
1. Io = Artemis
"The Phrygians call me � Mother of the Gods; the Athenians, call me Cecropian Artemis; for the islanders of Cyprus I am Paphian Aphrodite; for the archers of Crete I am Dictynna; for the Sicilians Proserpine (Persephone).; and for the Eleusinians their ancient Mother of the Corn (Demeter). Some know me as Juno (Hera), some as Bellona of the Battles, others as Hecate � and the Egyptians � call me by my true name, namely, Queen Isis." (Apuleius, The Golden Ass).
2. Artemis=Mistress of the wilds
3. Minoan Temple in Egypt with Misstress of Animals
Bietak has suggested the way (or a way) ahead. The Thebans, and not the Hyksos, were in contact with Knossos, where it is possible (but not proven) that a woman, the Mistress of Animals, occupied the throne of Minos. He suggests that Aahotep, the Egyptian born wife of Sekenenre Tao, and mother of Kamose and Ahmose, may hold the key to the Minoan wallpaintings at Avaris. Her superlative titles on the victory stele of Ahmose set up at Karnak may represent a dynastic link between the Thebans and Knossos.44 If this suggestion proves correct, a Minoan presence in Egypt during the later Hyksos period can be added to the sparse evidence for Minoan activity at that time in the south-eastern Mediterranean and the Nile Valley,45 and a prelude to the arrival of Aegean envoys and bearers depicted in the Theban tombs during the reigns of Hatshepsut and Thutmose III. Indeed, fact at Avaris may prove to be stranger than fiction � a remarkable woman came from Crete with Minoan forces. She or her daughter became accepted as an Egyptian, married a Theban hero, and was celebrated at Avaris for her part in the salvation of the Two Lands.
4. The Speos Artemidos Inscription of Hatshepsut
While I restored what had decayed, I annulled the former privileges (that existed) since (the time) the Asiatics were in the region of Avaris of Lower Egypt! The immigrants (shemau) Among them disregarded the tasks which were assigned to them, thinking (that) Re would not consent when the deified (i.e. Hatsheput�s father Thutmose I) assigned the rulership to my majesty. And when I allowed the abomination of the gods (i.e. the immigrants) to depart, the earth swallowed their footsteps! This was the directive of the Primeval Father (literally �father of fathers�, i.e. Nun the primeval water), who came one day unexpectedly. 10 *** .. I have restored that which was in ruins, I have raised up that which was unfinished since the Asiatics (�mw) were in the midst of Avaris of the Northland, and the barbarians were in the midst of them, overthrowing, that which was made, while they ruled in ignorance of Re. .. I removed the abomination of the great god, [I] captured the land of their sandals... [Breasted, �Records�, Vol. II, �Speos Artemidos�, Sec. 299]Alt Translation via Allen
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